Are Macs More Expensive?
I was on Digg the other day and saw a comment about Macs being more expensive. I couldn't help jumping in and throwing my support behind the commenter because Macs are more expensive for most people.
Statistics can prove anything. It's said that flying is safer than driving, but I read several years ago a very convincing argument that the opposite was true if you you used a different measuring stick. Unfortunately I don't remember what that was and a Google search didn't help, although it was probably based on number of trips per fatal accident, because there's hundreds of million car trips per day, compared to tens of thousands of plane trips per day. (Personally, since many car trips are short, I'm more interested in statistic that works on miles travelled, which is the one that favours plane travel.)
The Mac vs PC, "which is more expensive" argument is the same. The Mac fans like to go on about quality and TCO to support their argument. These are amusing because if people listened to those arguments, they'd all be driving expensive European cars. Ever noticed just how many cheap-ass cars are on the road?
But in the end it's got nothing to do with these. They're just furphies to fool people into thinking they should spend the extra money. It's about having the choice to spend less, which, within a spec-range, you don't get really get with Macs. And, consequently, it's also about budgets.
The way we should look at the Mac vs PC cost camparson is who's buying. In particular, home users and what's their budget. Mums and dads for example.
Mums and dads, first off, don't give a brass razoo about TCO, they just want to know how much it's going to cost today. However, they are influenced by whizz-bangetry, which gives the PC salesman, with TV tuners, surround sound, card reads etc all built-in, a distinct advantage.
So let's look at a tangible example. (Since I'm using Australian slang and spelling, I'll use Aussie dollars too.) Mum and dad want a computer for the kids. Nothing too swish, just internet, something to run an office suite, and a few low- to mid-end games. In the PC world they'll probably spend AU$700 - AU$1000. In the Mac world they don't get that choice. Down here in Oz, a Mac mini starts at AU$849. If it's their first computer or an additional, they've got to add at least AU$250 for a keyboard, mouse and monitor. If they want to get something a little better, the next Mac mini is AU$1148. Consequently, for these Mac purchasing mums and dads, the Mac range is AU$1050 to AU$1400.
Oh, and they did notice that all the PCs they looked at had at least 2GB of memory and 160GB hard disks. Those add another AU$270 to the Macs,making that range AU$1320 to AU$1670. (And that doesn't even consider that the Mac is way old, without an update since August, 2007.)
But hang on, this mum and dad just want a computer for the kids. They don't want to spend an arm and a leg. In fact, they'd really like to spend only about AU$1000. So the PC is already way ahead of the Mac.
For these mums and dads, the Mac is more expensive than the PC, and in fact, too expensive. Sold, one PC.
It's the same for so many other people, whether at home or in business. Most folks want a computer to do a job, they have a budget, and if the Mac doesn't fit into that budget, they can't justify paying a premium.
Macs are more expensive and I'm happy to pay the premium. But I fully understand why most people don't.
Apple also understands and accepts that. After all, it doesn't make no "$500 junk". Whatever market you look at, be it home, prosumer, or pro, Apple doesn't make junk computers in that market (current Mac mini excused), it makes premium ones. This implicitly says Macs will be more expensive than the norm.
Macs are more expensive. Apple accepts it, so should Mac fans.
(BTW If you're a PC user thinking of switching, and if you can stretch the budget, do it, you won't be sorry.)
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Slashdot
StumbleUpon
Comments
Chris wrote: “It’s what MacGlee said about intangibles. Mac folks trying to prove Macs are on par love to throw in the intangibles - the longer expectancy, the software that comes with Macs, the higher quality parts etc.”
Chris, at this point it just seems like you’re having a difficult time accepting reality. You keep going on about Macs being more expensive than equivalent Windows PCs, when it’s been shown to you (multiple times) that they are not.
Even without considering the “intangibles” you refer to, doing side-by-side comparisons like the one I did with the MacBook, or the article at PC Mech (http://www.pcmech.com/article/is-the-mac-overpriced/) you still are either living in denial, you are having difficulty thinking clearly, or you are just being obstinate in the face of all the facts presented.
What is with you? It’s your irrational, unjustifiable, absurd attitude that makes me question your lucidity and integrity.
“You are asserting that Macs are more expensive than the lowest level of Windows econo-rubbish.”
Nope. Never said that. Rather, I said, to quote the article:
“Whatever market you look at, be it home, prosumer, or pro, Apple doesn’t make junk computers in that market (current Mac mini excused), it makes premium ones.”
The problem is folks like to walk around saying “Over and over and over, it has been clearly demonstrated Macs are NOT more expensive, when comparing the same thing.”
And that is misleading in the context of why people are saying “Macs are more expensive”. You see, we have our fingers in our ears, not listenig to those people, we’d rather shout them down with “But Macs aren’t more expensive!”
It’s easy for us Mac-heads to ram down people’s throats that Macs are on par price wise for the same thing. But it’s just so misleading.
Are we telling them “don’t buy that (quite acceptable NOT junk) PC for AU$1400 with all the bells and whistles, when you could spend AU$1700 and get a Mac that has only half the bells and whistles?”
And see there’s something else. We when we prove the Mac’s are the same price, we dumb-down the PCs to the Macs specifications instead of saying I can get a PC with ALL these features, what will it cost for the Mac? e.g. TV tuners, 8 USB ports, memory card reader, blu-ray DVD player, etc etc etc.
So what do you tell the buyer? Oh, you’ve got to go and buy all those things separately and have them dangling off your Mac, cluttering your desk. And up goes the price of the Mac.
This article was about listening to why people are saying Macs are more expensive, and understanding, that from THEIR context, it is 100% true.
“So if that’s all you’re saying - that many people will by low-level econo goods for the lowest price (a la WalMart) - yes, you’re absolutely right. But…. uhhhh…. soooo? What’s that got to do with Apple? “
Nothing to do with Apple.
It’s about folks who berate them for not buying Macs because “Macs aren’t more expensive if you look at it from this angle.”
“Chris, at this point it just seems like you’re having a difficult time accepting reality. You keep going on about Macs being more expensive than equivalent Windows PCs, when it’s been shown to you (multiple times) that they are not.”
Nope, never said equivalent PCs. You guys are ones trying to turn it into an argument about “apples for apples”. Rather I said equivalent *uses*, actually. Remember the example about “...computer for the kids. Nothing too swish…”
Read the article again. Take the blinkers off and consider what it is really about. From my very opening statement I am alluding that it’s how they look at it, not you.
Otherwise I would say to you:
“you still are either living in denial, you are having difficulty thinking clearly, or you are just being obstinate in the face of all the facts presented.
What is with you? It’s your irrational, unjustifiable, absurd attitude that makes me question your lucidity and integrity.”
Because therein is the whole problem. Mac-heads latch onto this “Macs aren’t more expensive” mantra, stick their fingers in their ears, and chant it over and over without any consideration for the PC buyers’ point-of-view. No wonder they hate Mac people!
“Read the article again. Take the blinkers off and consider what it is really about. From my very opening statement I am alluding that it’s how they look at it, not you.”
Yes, we have read the article. If you’re point is that some Windows users just want to by the cheapest priced computer without any consideration for what they are getting for the money, then we have all agreed that’s true.
You can buy a Linux/Windows netbook for about $300, and Apple doesn’t make any comparable cheap, low-quality, low performance products. Again, we all agree with that.
“The way we should look at the Mac vs PC cost camparson is who’s buying. In particular, home users and what’s their budget. Mums and dads for example.”
Yes, agree. But this mentality is changing.
Here is one of several examples I know of just in my own circle of family and friends. My friends Sam & Sandy, and their two college-age kids, up until a couple of years ago was a family with 4 Windows PCs. One of their kids replaced their Windows notebook with a MacBook. Shortly after, the other one did also. Now, all 4 of them have their own Macs.
Sam tells me often, without prompting, that they will never go back to using Windows PCs again.
Your article is entitled “Are Macs More Expensive?”, and you write that Windows users believe that Macs ARE more expensive. They believe this because there are no equivalent low-end, el-cheapo Macs to compete in this arena. This is something we can all agree to.
All of these comments are not disputing the fact that there is this belief among some Windows users, just as they still believe that Macs only have one mouse-button.
It’s a mentality… but it’s not reality. That is the point we are all making. And this mentality cuts both ways.
For example, today on Egadget there is an article (http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/10/dell-latitude-xt2-multi-touch-tablet-with-11-hour-battery-now-of/) about another highly over-priced Windows computer. It’s a 12” Dell notebook with really low-end specs (1.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, Intel integrated GMA 4500MHD graphics, etc.) and it starts at $2,399.US!
That’s TWICE the price of the much better spec’d MacBook!!!
But the same Windows users who believe that Macs are too expensive will pay twice as much for this inferior crap, simply because they don’t take the time to do a real-world comparison.
There are some misconceptions that can’t be changed easily. But the point we are all making is that Apple is not in the business of pandering to these people
What we are
* “Macs are more expensive and I’m happy to pay the premium.”
* “Mums and dads, first off, don’t give a brass razoo about TCO, they just want to know how much it’s going to cost today.”....
I’d say that’s the essence, or a fair chunk of it. I.e. there’s the supposed FACT of Macs being more expensive, and then there’s what people CARE ABOUT - low price.
So back to “Macs are more expensive.” We see some articles and comments containing this assertion, making that exact, INCOMPLETE statement, as if it is a valid sentence—- as if it actually means something. But it doesn’t, because ANY such sentence is completely meaningless unless the “than” is supplied. So I ask, “Than what?” Than an onion? Than a Ferrari? And the only actually valid “than what” to complete the sentence with is “than low-end, rubbish Windows PCs.”
Then we have people’s perception on price and the drive to buy for as little as possible. Again I say (and Harvey has said, above) - Yes on the mums and dads. We agree with you totally on that. Yes, huge numbers of people buy like that—- even though it’s a very stupid way (unless you’re genuinely poor) to buy anything, be it kitchen knives, shoes or computers!
You guys seem to want it to be about Macs vs “$500 junk”.
Michael said (regards Macs are more expensive than what?):
“And the only actually valid “than what” to complete the sentence with is “than low-end, rubbish Windows PCs.” “
Harvey said:
“They believe this because there are no equivalent low-end, el-cheapo Macs to compete in this arena.”
I can see we agree on the premise of the article, that is, that people buy cheaper PCs than Macs, so therefore Macs appear expensive to them.
However, those cheaper PCs aren’t automatically crap.
“However, those cheaper PCs aren’t automatically crap.”
I agree. A cheap PC is a cheap PC. If not much money goes into the components of a PC to be able to sell it for $300 it’s not “automatically crap.” But the point is that a $300 netbook is not the same animal as a quality notebook. It’s OK for e-mail and Web browsing, but you can’t run applications like Photoshop on it, or even do video editing.
There are people who don’t need or can’t afford a quality computer, and for them a $300 netbook is just fine. And there are people who do need and can afford a quality computer; for them buying a $300 netbook would be just throwing their money away.
So again we are back to pointing out that Apple doesn’t make computers for the first group.
What I did say was “But the same Windows users who believe that Macs are too expensive will pay twice as much for this inferior crap, simply because they don’t take the time to do a real-world comparison.”
In this case, if you look at the specs for the Dell notebook, it has a really low end 1.4GHz processor, a slow, low end Intel graphics chip, a 12” Screen, and a cheap plastic case.
And yet the price of this Dell notebook is TWICE the price of the 13” MacBook that has a 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, a fast dedicated NVIDIA GeForce 9400M GPU, a solid aluminum casing, and a multi-touch trackpad (which for most people is more useful than a multi-touch screen).
So yes, this Dell notebook is “crap” when you consider that Dell is selling an inferior product for twice the price of the MacBook!
Apple’s ‘Less for More’ Strategy
We can see that Apple really do “Think Different”. We know this because ‘upgrades’ mean something a little different to Apple than most producers.
Perhaps we can all learn from their upgrade model. Surreptitiously stripping away features, adding eye candy and then hiking the prices seems to the winning strategy.
**Keynote 09 - Export to Flash (.swf) removed. You don’t know this until you’ve bought it. (A little honesty upfront would be nice)
**iMovie 08
Any and all decent editing features present in iMovie 06 were removed to put some distance between iMovie and Final Cut Pro and encourage people to fork out for the editing suite. It begs the question: you wanna play with movies? iMovie is the ticket. You want to edit movies? With iMovie? Don’t be ridiculous.
New Aluminum Macbooks (from Autumn 2008)
Firewire port removed on 13” Macbooks but left on 15” Macbook Pros.
With measly other cosmetic features, the price hiked from £699.00 to £929.
White Macbook RAM downgraded from 2Gb Standard to 1 Gb standard.
Price increased from £699 to £719.
(This has since been changed back to 2Gb).
These veiled rips-off make a complete mockery of customers. Rather sadly, I’m afraid, loyalty to Apple has had its day.
Look, it’s as simple as this:
The problem many consumers have with “Apple pricing” isn’t really Apple’s product pricing, it’s Apple’s product ranging.
1. When comparing Apples with apples there is no price difference. We all agree on that so lets move on.
2. The issue is Apple doesn’t offer up enough apples. While they shouldn’t sell “elcheapo” crap computers, they should offer average priced computers. While companies like BMW and Mercedes have reduced the entry level price to their brands by adding hatchbacks to their ranges, when it comes to notebooks, Apple have increased their prices!
3. This is particularly annoying because in other product categories you just buy the product you need at the right price from the competition, but in computing there’s only two mainstream OS’s, not much choice.
Apple, you’ve got the halo effect momentum, it’s time to move the focus off profit margin (milking the early adopters) and focus on total profit ie balancing margin and sales for maximum profit. It’s a win win. But I fear this will only happen if MS get their s__t together.
While theres benefits for owning a mac in the long term, and it can save you money, I can’t just go ahead and “Hey let’s buy a mac! It’ll still work in 10 years!”. There are 6 people in my household. Each of us has never met a person who has owned a mac except for a few people online. Macs are just too expensive. Also, why in the hell would I want a 350GB hard drive, 4GB RAM, and a 13 inch screen? I’ve saved up money for weeks to get an Iphone 2G on Ebay because I can’t afford the newest one.. The Ipod Shuffle uses cheap parts but costs $60 more than if I made it.
Let’s say a sixteen year old asks his mom for a new computer because his computer broke down on him. The mother will say, “Oh, I’m sorry, I can’t afford one right now. I’ll see next weekend.” The weekend after next weekend, the mother approaches her son, “Do you know what computer you want?” The son says, “No.” The mother says, “Well be looking up online and we can go tomorrow to Best Buy.” The next day, they go into Best Buy to look for a computer, mostly a laptop. The son says, “Can we get a macbook? There’s no viruses yada yada” The mother says “Let me see how much it is”. They go into the aisle with the macbooks and she says, “Oh no, they’re too expensive. $999 for a 13 inch screen? I just saw the $299 Toshiba over there with a 15.4 inch screen. Let’s get that.” And Apple just lost a sale.
Many teenagers nowdays use the computer. This is the technological savvy generation, and teenagers will spend the most (and ask their parents to buy their money the most) than any other generation.. and most of them use a PC. Parents don’t want to waste $999 on a macbook for the teenager with the messy room.. unless they’re a doctor.
If you look into Twitter and search “macbook” and “afford”, you shouldn’t be suprised to see “My powerbook just broke.. can’t afford a macbook.. guess I’ll get a PC.”
I remember wanting the Imac G3.. I said, “Someday, I’ll afford it.” I was kind of right. In 2007, I bought one on Craigslist for $30. I have, at times, wished that Apple would go broke again. I would love to see them open their eyes and lower their prices to something sane. I can barely afford a used Mac Mini.. and why in the hell would I want that? A beautiful Mac on an ugly gray Sunsystems CO CRT monitor? No way.
And the next person who tells me to switch to Linux needs to shut in the hell up. I installed Ubuntu on my shiny new HP, and immediately removed it. First of all, comparing Windows 7 to.. even Kubuntu is like comparing Windows 7 to a bottle of Hand Sanitizer. Windows 7 looks shiny, Kubuntu looks ugly. Windows 7 has .exe files and Ubuntu has .deb, .tar.gz, and the ugly, hilarious Terminal. Windows 7 has an ACTUAL AIM client with pretty, neat, shiny themes. Ubuntu has gray Pidgin. Windows 7 can be used for years without changing the default theme, Ubuntu needs various third party themes to make itself look a little more appealing, Windows 7 and Mac OSX has an actual dock, Ubuntu has third-party docks (one that doesn’t even group windows, too) used by morons who actually think that a little buggy black thing at the bottom of your screen looks pretty. Windows 7 has an actual MSN client, Linux has amsn which barely signs you in and looks hideous, and the closest to a good, pretty MSN client on there is Emesene, which is still stuck in the old MSN Messenger phrase.. phase.
I’ve asked my friends to switch to Linux just for a response.. gave them screenshots, and they all said no. None of them want to switch to something as buttugly as Linux. No one wants to turn their computer into Windows 98 clones. No one wants to look like a nerd in Starbucks. No one wants to even experience the feeling of being lost without .exe. No one even wants to open a Terminal. No one even wants to deal with something that has never changed it’s appearance since 2004 (Ubuntu). Windows and Mac users want prettiness, and something that’s popular. Sadly, Ubuntu is the most popular Linux distribution, and it’s hilariously ugly, your best female friend who listens to Owl City and has a Windows Vista laptop with a pretty helicopter muffin wallpaper wouldn’t want anything to do with it. You’ll look like an idiot. There is NO video up on the internet about Linux that has an actual professional narrator. Look at Ubuntu’s website. Their “tour” is just boring screenshots. There’s no ads on their website or on the internet that has a nice professional video, there’s no video with narration so professional you can’t hear the P’s, and don’t even go to Kubuntu’s website with their big ugly blue fonts.
The real cost of a new Mac Pro
Desktop - base price $2500 ($2800 w/tax)
Monitor - base price $900 ($980 tax)
TOTAL: $3780 almost $4000 fricken dollars (are you kidding me ?)
Apple has made it near impossible for most people to afford it